Discussion:
mind control
(too old to reply)
deowll
2010-02-26 04:55:38 UTC
Permalink
This book seems to be about milked dry but I do think one more thing needs
to be mentioned before I move on to other things. DW used the exact same
words to describe the same odd expression fleeting across the face of the
top Admiral in the SLN and the man leading the current invasion. I noted it
both the first and second time I read the book. Whatever, it must have been
rather odd and noticilbe because it was noticed and noted. It occurs when
dealing with issues relating to Manticore and how to deal with same. Both
men are noted as having done favors for Manpower/Mesa. While the men are
intelligent their actions don't seem to be all that reasonible or prudent
after their reset button or whatever kicks in.

I doubt if the behaivor is due to these men being blackmailed or on the
take. It hasn't been noted occuring with other people who would fit that
description. This is obviously not as simple as having been conditioned to
abominate the Star Empire with every fiber of their being. It sounds more
like DW is trying to give us a not so subtle clue that the men have been
conditioned or otherwise _controled_ to see certain things a certain way
under certain conditions but the controls aren't good enough for the
behavior to appear completely natural.



I do wonder about their underlings. They sound like they _might_ be either
alpha or beta lines. The beta lines if less able are less conspicious. Even
if that is true the one with the invasion fleet might want to go on living
and take steps at some point to do exactly that. Of course he may have been
conditioned as well. There isn't any doubt that Mesa can do that if they
have physical control of the subject for some time. If a person visited a
pleasure palace for some fun I would think that would count. DW does have a
lot of options to play with and we may find out what he decides in a year or
three.

Have fun and God bless.
Don Sample
2010-02-26 05:33:40 UTC
Permalink
Post by deowll
This book seems to be about milked dry but I do think one more thing needs
to be mentioned before I move on to other things. DW used the exact same
words to describe the same odd expression fleeting across the face of the
top Admiral in the SLN and the man leading the current invasion. I noted it
both the first and second time I read the book. Whatever, it must have been
rather odd and noticilbe because it was noticed and noted. It occurs when
dealing with issues relating to Manticore and how to deal with same. Both
men are noted as having done favors for Manpower/Mesa. While the men are
intelligent their actions don't seem to be all that reasonible or prudent
after their reset button or whatever kicks in.
I doubt if the behaivor is due to these men being blackmailed or on the
take. It hasn't been noted occuring with other people who would fit that
description. This is obviously not as simple as having been conditioned to
abominate the Star Empire with every fiber of their being. It sounds more
like DW is trying to give us a not so subtle clue that the men have been
conditioned or otherwise _controled_ to see certain things a certain way
under certain conditions but the controls aren't good enough for the
behavior to appear completely natural.
I do wonder about their underlings. They sound like they _might_ be either
alpha or beta lines. The beta lines if less able are less conspicious. Even
if that is true the one with the invasion fleet might want to go on living
and take steps at some point to do exactly that. Of course he may have been
conditioned as well. There isn't any doubt that Mesa can do that if they
have physical control of the subject for some time. If a person visited a
pleasure palace for some fun I would think that would count. DW does have a
lot of options to play with and we may find out what he decides in a year or
three.
Have fun and God bless.
Or maybe it's just one of Weber's stock descriptive phrases. He's got
quite a few of them
--
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>
Don Sample
2010-02-27 05:13:35 UTC
Permalink
Post by Don Sample
Post by deowll
This book seems to be about milked dry but I do think one more thing needs
to be mentioned before I move on to other things. DW used the exact same
words to describe the same odd expression fleeting across the face of the
top Admiral in the SLN and the man leading the current invasion. I noted it
both the first and second time I read the book. Whatever, it must have been
rather odd and noticilbe because it was noticed and noted. It occurs when
dealing with issues relating to Manticore and how to deal with same. Both
men are noted as having done favors for Manpower/Mesa. While the men are
intelligent their actions don't seem to be all that reasonible or prudent
after their reset button or whatever kicks in.
I doubt if the behaivor is due to these men being blackmailed or on the
take. It hasn't been noted occuring with other people who would fit that
description. This is obviously not as simple as having been conditioned to
abominate the Star Empire with every fiber of their being. It sounds more
like DW is trying to give us a not so subtle clue that the men have been
conditioned or otherwise _controled_ to see certain things a certain way
under certain conditions but the controls aren't good enough for the
behavior to appear completely natural.
I do wonder about their underlings. They sound like they _might_ be either
alpha or beta lines. The beta lines if less able are less conspicious. Even
if that is true the one with the invasion fleet might want to go on living
and take steps at some point to do exactly that. Of course he may have been
conditioned as well. There isn't any doubt that Mesa can do that if they
have physical control of the subject for some time. If a person visited a
pleasure palace for some fun I would think that would count. DW does have a
lot of options to play with and we may find out what he decides in a year or
three.
Have fun and God bless.
Or maybe it's just one of Weber's stock descriptive phrases. He's got
quite a few of them
An extra comment: Just what were the repeated words?
--
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>
deowll
2010-02-27 18:45:29 UTC
Permalink
Post by Don Sample
Post by Don Sample
Post by deowll
This book seems to be about milked dry but I do think one more thing needs
to be mentioned before I move on to other things. DW used the exact same
words to describe the same odd expression fleeting across the face of the
top Admiral in the SLN and the man leading the current invasion. I noted it
both the first and second time I read the book. Whatever, it must have been
rather odd and noticilbe because it was noticed and noted. It occurs when
dealing with issues relating to Manticore and how to deal with same. Both
men are noted as having done favors for Manpower/Mesa. While the men are
intelligent their actions don't seem to be all that reasonible or prudent
after their reset button or whatever kicks in.
I doubt if the behaivor is due to these men being blackmailed or on the
take. It hasn't been noted occuring with other people who would fit that
description. This is obviously not as simple as having been conditioned to
abominate the Star Empire with every fiber of their being. It sounds more
like DW is trying to give us a not so subtle clue that the men have been
conditioned or otherwise _controled_ to see certain things a certain way
under certain conditions but the controls aren't good enough for the
behavior to appear completely natural.
I do wonder about their underlings. They sound like they _might_ be either
alpha or beta lines. The beta lines if less able are less conspicious. Even
if that is true the one with the invasion fleet might want to go on living
and take steps at some point to do exactly that. Of course he may have been
conditioned as well. There isn't any doubt that Mesa can do that if they
have physical control of the subject for some time. If a person visited a
pleasure palace for some fun I would think that would count. DW does have a
lot of options to play with and we may find out what he decides in a
year
or
three.
Have fun and God bless.
Or maybe it's just one of Weber's stock descriptive phrases. He's got
quite a few of them
An extra comment: Just what were the repeated words?
--
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>
Start with this:
"At which point, the Manties will refuse and he and most of his
superdreadnoughts will get exactly the same treatment Crandall got at
Spindle. And if it should happen that restraint seems likely to rear its
ugly head at the critical moment, we've taken a few precautions to . . .
help the situation along, let's say. "

p.14
"." Rajampet's eyes glittered at his choice of words, but Kolokoltsov didn't
especially care."

p.19
"Suit yourself," Rajampet said, and there might have been just a flicker of
something in his eyes that Kolokoltsov didn't really care for. "I think it's
going to come down to shooting in the end, but I'm more than willing to go
along with the attempt to avoid it first." ...



Kolokoltsov still wasn't fully satisfied, and he still didn't care for that
eye-flicker of whatever it had been, but there was nothing concrete he could
find fault with, and so he only nodded.



p. 391



"

Filareta nodded slowly, his eyes intent, but there was something else behind
those eyes. Burrows could see that, even though he didn't have a clue what
else the fleet admiral was turning over in his mind.

"So what you're saying is that whoever"-that "something else" behind
Filareta's eyes flickered more strongly for a moment-"blew the piss out of
their system infrastructure has to've done it through that same kind of
defensive system."






Okay so maybe I'm wrong and these two aren't under active conditioning. Mr.
D still has something planned.



In any event it is clearly stated that Mr. D expects the League and maybe
the SLN to blow up under Rajampet before he can send in another attack which
is already being planned. When you realize that he would have just thrown
away the crews of almost one fourth of Battle fleet on active duty it is
easy to understand why. The risks that having a defeat like that might
result in the person responsible getting two to the head should have been
obvious to anyone. The likely hood that it would trigger all sorts of unrest
should have been as obvious as the sun. That everybody with connections
would start using them against Rajampet is also obvious. Somebody has to
take the blame and he is to blame.



It is also extremely unlikely that anyone sane is going to want to repeat
what just happened.



With a lot of frontier flee being pulled out to provide screening forces for
the next attack things aren't going to be nailed down and with almost a
fourth of Battle Fleet gone a lot of people are going to start rattling the
bars on their cages. The SLN is going to need a lot more ships fast just to
try and keep the lid on the pot. If somebody like the Maya sector manages to
blow away a major SLN force then things are really going to start blowing
up fast. Think Silesia.



If Beowulf actually knows the league is about to come apart and they aren't
up grading their military they are insane.



During this reading I noted that some other star systems beside Beowulf had
been given some military information by Manticore.



The situation should be about to get incrediblely messy with loads of action
occurring all over the place.
Don Sample
2010-02-27 21:53:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by deowll
Post by Don Sample
Post by Don Sample
Post by deowll
This book seems to be about milked dry but I do think one more
thing
needs to be mentioned before I move on to other things. DW used
the exact same words to describe the same odd expression
fleeting across the face of the top Admiral in the SLN and the
man leading the current invasion. I noted it both the first and
second time I read the book. Whatever, it must have been rather
odd and noticilbe because it was noticed and noted. It occurs
when dealing with issues relating to Manticore and how to deal
with same. Both men are noted as having done favors for
Manpower/Mesa. While the men are intelligent their actions
don't seem to be all that reasonible or prudent after their
reset button or whatever kicks in.
I doubt if the behaivor is due to these men being blackmailed or
on the take. It hasn't been noted occuring with other people who
would fit that description. This is obviously not as simple as
having been conditioned to abominate the Star Empire with every
fiber of their being. It sounds more like DW is trying to give
us a not so subtle clue that the men have been conditioned or
otherwise _controled_ to see certain things a certain way under
certain conditions but the controls aren't good enough for the
behavior to appear completely natural.
I do wonder about their underlings. They sound like they _might_
be either alpha or beta lines. The beta lines if less able are
less conspicious. Even if that is true the one with the invasion
fleet might want to go on living and take steps at some point to
do exactly that. Of course he may have been conditioned as well.
There isn't any doubt that Mesa can do that if they have
physical control of the subject for some time. If a person
visited a pleasure palace for some fun I would think that would
count. DW does have a lot of options to play with and we may
find out what he decides in a year or three.
Have fun and God bless.
Or maybe it's just one of Weber's stock descriptive phrases. He's got
quite a few of them
An extra comment: Just what were the repeated words?
--
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>
"At which point, the Manties will refuse and he and most of his
superdreadnoughts will get exactly the same treatment Crandall got at
Spindle. And if it should happen that restraint seems likely to rear its
ugly head at the critical moment, we've taken a few precautions to . . .
help the situation along, let's say. "
p.14
"." Rajampet's eyes glittered at his choice of words, but Kolokoltsov didn't
especially care."
p.19
"Suit yourself," Rajampet said, and there might have been just a flicker of
something in his eyes that Kolokoltsov didn't really care for. "I think it's
going to come down to shooting in the end, but I'm more than willing to go
along with the attempt to avoid it first." ...
Kolokoltsov still wasn't fully satisfied, and he still didn't care for that
eye-flicker of whatever it had been, but there was nothing concrete he could
find fault with, and so he only nodded.
p. 391
"
Filareta nodded slowly, his eyes intent, but there was something else behind
those eyes. Burrows could see that, even though he didn't have a clue what
else the fleet admiral was turning over in his mind.
"So what you're saying is that whoever"-that "something else" behind
Filareta's eyes flickered more strongly for a moment-"blew the piss out of
their system infrastructure has to've done it through that same kind of
defensive system."
Okay so maybe I'm wrong and these two aren't under active conditioning. Mr.
D still has something planned.
I did a grep search of the text of all the books and came up with about
150 cases of flickering eyes, including "Honor leaned back to regard him
pensively and saw her own thoughts flicker behind [McKeon's] gray eyes."
all the way back in "On Basilisk Station."
--
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>
deowll
2010-02-28 05:30:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Don Sample
Post by deowll
Post by Don Sample
Post by Don Sample
Post by deowll
This book seems to be about milked dry but I do think one more
thing
needs to be mentioned before I move on to other things. DW used
the exact same words to describe the same odd expression
fleeting across the face of the top Admiral in the SLN and the
man leading the current invasion. I noted it both the first and
second time I read the book. Whatever, it must have been rather
odd and noticilbe because it was noticed and noted. It occurs
when dealing with issues relating to Manticore and how to deal
with same. Both men are noted as having done favors for
Manpower/Mesa. While the men are intelligent their actions
don't seem to be all that reasonible or prudent after their
reset button or whatever kicks in.
I doubt if the behaivor is due to these men being blackmailed or
on the take. It hasn't been noted occuring with other people who
would fit that description. This is obviously not as simple as
having been conditioned to abominate the Star Empire with every
fiber of their being. It sounds more like DW is trying to give
us a not so subtle clue that the men have been conditioned or
otherwise _controled_ to see certain things a certain way under
certain conditions but the controls aren't good enough for the
behavior to appear completely natural.
I do wonder about their underlings. They sound like they _might_
be either alpha or beta lines. The beta lines if less able are
less conspicious. Even if that is true the one with the invasion
fleet might want to go on living and take steps at some point to
do exactly that. Of course he may have been conditioned as well.
There isn't any doubt that Mesa can do that if they have
physical control of the subject for some time. If a person
visited a pleasure palace for some fun I would think that would
count. DW does have a lot of options to play with and we may
find out what he decides in a year or three.
Have fun and God bless.
Or maybe it's just one of Weber's stock descriptive phrases. He's got
quite a few of them
An extra comment: Just what were the repeated words?
--
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>
"At which point, the Manties will refuse and he and most of his
superdreadnoughts will get exactly the same treatment Crandall got at
Spindle. And if it should happen that restraint seems likely to rear its
ugly head at the critical moment, we've taken a few precautions to . . .
help the situation along, let's say. "
p.14
"." Rajampet's eyes glittered at his choice of words, but Kolokoltsov didn't
especially care."
p.19
"Suit yourself," Rajampet said, and there might have been just a flicker of
something in his eyes that Kolokoltsov didn't really care for. "I think it's
going to come down to shooting in the end, but I'm more than willing to go
along with the attempt to avoid it first." ...
Kolokoltsov still wasn't fully satisfied, and he still didn't care for that
eye-flicker of whatever it had been, but there was nothing concrete he could
find fault with, and so he only nodded.
p. 391
"
Filareta nodded slowly, his eyes intent, but there was something else behind
those eyes. Burrows could see that, even though he didn't have a clue what
else the fleet admiral was turning over in his mind.
"So what you're saying is that whoever"-that "something else" behind
Filareta's eyes flickered more strongly for a moment-"blew the piss out of
their system infrastructure has to've done it through that same kind of
defensive system."
Okay so maybe I'm wrong and these two aren't under active conditioning. Mr.
D still has something planned.
I did a grep search of the text of all the books and came up with about
150 cases of flickering eyes, including "Honor leaned back to regard him
pensively and saw her own thoughts flicker behind [McKeon's] gray eyes."
all the way back in "On Basilisk Station."
So if you come across a book and you want to know if DW wrote it but that
data is missing check to see if the character's eyes flicker. If they don't
he didn't.
Post by Don Sample
--
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>
deowll
2010-02-27 06:35:42 UTC
Permalink
Post by Don Sample
Post by deowll
This book seems to be about milked dry but I do think one more thing needs
to be mentioned before I move on to other things. DW used the exact same
words to describe the same odd expression fleeting across the face of the
top Admiral in the SLN and the man leading the current invasion. I noted it
both the first and second time I read the book. Whatever, it must have been
rather odd and noticilbe because it was noticed and noted. It occurs when
dealing with issues relating to Manticore and how to deal with same. Both
men are noted as having done favors for Manpower/Mesa. While the men are
intelligent their actions don't seem to be all that reasonible or prudent
after their reset button or whatever kicks in.
I doubt if the behaivor is due to these men being blackmailed or on the
take. It hasn't been noted occuring with other people who would fit that
description. This is obviously not as simple as having been conditioned to
abominate the Star Empire with every fiber of their being. It sounds more
like DW is trying to give us a not so subtle clue that the men have been
conditioned or otherwise _controled_ to see certain things a certain way
under certain conditions but the controls aren't good enough for the
behavior to appear completely natural.
I do wonder about their underlings. They sound like they _might_ be either
alpha or beta lines. The beta lines if less able are less conspicious. Even
if that is true the one with the invasion fleet might want to go on living
and take steps at some point to do exactly that. Of course he may have been
conditioned as well. There isn't any doubt that Mesa can do that if they
have physical control of the subject for some time. If a person visited a
pleasure palace for some fun I would think that would count. DW does have a
lot of options to play with and we may find out what he decides in a year or
three.
Have fun and God bless.
Or maybe it's just one of Weber's stock descriptive phrases. He's got
quite a few of them
If the docoument is long enough it is claimed you can often figure out who
wrote it, assuming you had a list of suspects to start with, by comparing
the word selection in the document with works they are known to have
written. In this case I can only recall this phrase occuring twice and both
times occured in the same book. It might be an accident but I wouldn't make
book on it.
Post by Don Sample
--
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>
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