run away missiles

[deowll]

Himself said: "
None of the navies in the Honor Harrington universe is really particularly
concerned about the possibility that one of their errant missiles is going
to impact on another starship or a planet at some distant point in the
future. The assumption is that it would be extremely unlikely simply because
of the smallest of the target and the vast area in which said target lies,
and that it is far more probable the missile is going to destroy itself by
running into a sufficiently solid objects (or series of very small
objects... like, say, grains of sand) that it is to hit the target anyone
cares about. However, more appropriate to the topic of debate in this
thread, is the observation someone made that no one wants a "lost" missile
being recovered by the other side and analyzed, and no one wants to have one
of his own missiles overshoot and enemy task force and detonate in close
proximity to a friendly task force which is closing in on the enemy from the
other side. Accordingly, all missiles in the Honorverse are equipped with
self-destruct software which is routinely set before the weapon is launched.
There are fairly standard parameters for the settings, the most common of
which is simply to set the warhead to self-destruct on a "time-from-launch"
basis which would take it well beyond any flights time at which it could
possibly engage it intended to target before it blows itself up.

In short, there are not shoals of missiles flying around the depths of
interstellar space seeking life-bearing planets to immolate.

Does make an interesting sort of mental image, though, doesn't it?

"Oops."

++++++++++++++++++++++=

Fair enough if you are a major player. A lot of the missiles in use by the
minor navies, pirates, and armed merchant men shouldn't be cutting edge. In
fact if you are selling on the open market they should be rather generic
with no secrets which seems to be the legal norm in the SLN. That being the
case the buyer at any rate is going to have little to no motivation to see
to it a self destruct is in working order and the maker isn't going to have
much motive to put one in or worry about quality control if they do.

The remaining reason for a self destruct is if you seen your missile
heading for something you don't want to hit. That however is almost
certainly going to require an outside signal to trigger it and if no such
signal is given the missile would continue on its course.

[Loren Pechtel]

Post by deowll
Fair enough if you are a major player. A lot of the missiles in use by the
minor navies, pirates, and armed merchant men shouldn't be cutting edge. In
fact if you are selling on the open market they should be rather generic
with no secrets which seems to be the legal norm in the SLN. That being the
case the buyer at any rate is going to have little to no motivation to see
to it a self destruct is in working order and the maker isn't going to have
much motive to put one in or worry about quality control if they do.
The remaining reason for a self destruct is if you seen your missile
heading for something you don't want to hit. That however is almost
certainly going to require an outside signal to trigger it and if no such
signal is given the missile would continue on its course.

The destruct can be in the control program of the warhead, no separate
destruct device is needed.

If the missile has gone too far to be useful you simply fire the
warhead without spinning up the gravity generators that focus it. The
missile is vaporized by the h-blast.

[deowll]

Post by Loren Pechtel

Post by deowll
Fair enough if you are a major player. A lot of the missiles in use by the
minor navies, pirates, and armed merchant men shouldn't be cutting edge. In
fact if you are selling on the open market they should be rather generic
with no secrets which seems to be the legal norm in the SLN. That being the
case the buyer at any rate is going to have little to no motivation to see
to it a self destruct is in working order and the maker isn't going to have
much motive to put one in or worry about quality control if they do.
The remaining reason for a self destruct is if you seen your missile
heading for something you don't want to hit. That however is almost
certainly going to require an outside signal to trigger it and if no such
signal is given the missile would continue on its course.

The destruct can be in the control program of the warhead, no separate
destruct device is needed.
If the missile has gone too far to be useful you simply fire the
warhead without spinning up the gravity generators that focus it. The
missile is vaporized by the h-blast.

I agree that all you have to do is set the warhead off and it won't cost
much to have it set up this way. The question is will all users really care
enough about stray missiles to make sure the systems work or bother about
strays. The answer I came up with is not likely.

[Don Sample]

Post by deowll

Post by Loren Pechtel

Post by deowll
Fair enough if you are a major player. A lot of the missiles in use by the
minor navies, pirates, and armed merchant men shouldn't be cutting edge. In
fact if you are selling on the open market they should be rather generic
with no secrets which seems to be the legal norm in the SLN. That being the
case the buyer at any rate is going to have little to no motivation to see
to it a self destruct is in working order and the maker isn't going to have
much motive to put one in or worry about quality control if they do.
The remaining reason for a self destruct is if you seen your missile
heading for something you don't want to hit. That however is almost
certainly going to require an outside signal to trigger it and if no such
signal is given the missile would continue on its course.

The destruct can be in the control program of the warhead, no separate
destruct device is needed.
If the missile has gone too far to be useful you simply fire the
warhead without spinning up the gravity generators that focus it. The
missile is vaporized by the h-blast.

I agree that all you have to do is set the warhead off and it won't cost
much to have it set up this way. The question is will all users really care
enough about stray missiles to make sure the systems work or bother about
strays. The answer I came up with is not likely.

Of course none of those other users are firing their missiles off by the
thousands either. The odds of a missile hitting a planet are
infinitesimal. Space is very big, and planets are very small.

[deowll]

Post by Don Sample

Post by deowll

Post by Loren Pechtel

Post by deowll
Fair enough if you are a major player. A lot of the missiles in use
by
the
minor navies, pirates, and armed merchant men shouldn't be cutting
edge.
In
fact if you are selling on the open market they should be rather generic
with no secrets which seems to be the legal norm in the SLN. That
being
the
case the buyer at any rate is going to have little to no motivation to see
to it a self destruct is in working order and the maker isn't going to have
much motive to put one in or worry about quality control if they do.
The remaining reason for a self destruct is if you seen your missile
heading for something you don't want to hit. That however is almost
certainly going to require an outside signal to trigger it and if no such
signal is given the missile would continue on its course.

The destruct can be in the control program of the warhead, no separate
destruct device is needed.
If the missile has gone too far to be useful you simply fire the
warhead without spinning up the gravity generators that focus it. The
missile is vaporized by the h-blast.

I agree that all you have to do is set the warhead off and it won't cost
much to have it set up this way. The question is will all users really care
enough about stray missiles to make sure the systems work or bother about
strays. The answer I came up with is not likely.

Of course none of those other users are firing their missiles off by the
thousands either. The odds of a missile hitting a planet are
infinitesimal. Space is very big, and planets are very small.

Absolutely but time is long and these things aren't going to slow down
until after they hit sometime.

Post by Don Sample
--
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>

[pyotr filipivich]

Let the Record show that "deowll" <***@gmail.com> on or about Thu,
11 Mar 2010 03:38:13 -0600 did write/type or cause to appear in

Post by deowll

Post by Don Sample

Post by deowll

Post by Loren Pechtel
If the missile has gone too far to be useful you simply fire the
warhead without spinning up the gravity generators that focus it. The
missile is vaporized by the h-blast.

I agree that all you have to do is set the warhead off and it won't cost
much to have it set up this way. The question is will all users really care
enough about stray missiles to make sure the systems work or bother about
strays. The answer I came up with is not likely.

Of course none of those other users are firing their missiles off by the
thousands either. The odds of a missile hitting a planet are
infinitesimal. Space is very big, and planets are very small.

Absolutely but time is long and these things aren't going to slow down
until after they hit sometime.

Hmmm, so the 1908 Siberian blast (Tsungian) could have been a run
away amissle from a battle around Alpha Centauri some ten years
before?
-
pyotr filipivich.
Just about the time you finally see light at the end of the tunnel,
you find out it's a Government Project to build more tunnel.

[deowll]

Post by pyotr filipivich
11 Mar 2010 03:38:13 -0600 did write/type or cause to appear in

Post by deowll

Post by Don Sample

Post by deowll

Post by Loren Pechtel
If the missile has gone too far to be useful you simply fire the
warhead without spinning up the gravity generators that focus it.
The
missile is vaporized by the h-blast.

I agree that all you have to do is set the warhead off and it won't cost
much to have it set up this way. The question is will all users really care
enough about stray missiles to make sure the systems work or bother about
strays. The answer I came up with is not likely.

Of course none of those other users are firing their missiles off by the
thousands either. The odds of a missile hitting a planet are
infinitesimal. Space is very big, and planets are very small.

Absolutely but time is long and these things aren't going to slow down
until after they hit sometime.

Hmmm, so the 1908 Siberian blast (Tsungian) could have been a run
away amissle from a battle around Alpha Centauri some ten years
before?

I think there were some small particles found that suggest it was a dust
ball hunk of space debris.

Post by pyotr filipivich
-
pyotr filipivich.
Just about the time you finally see light at the end of the tunnel,
you find out it's a Government Project to build more tunnel.

[Grashtel]

Post by deowll
Absolutely but time is long and these things aren't going to slow down
until after they hit sometime.

Time is long but space is really, REALLY big. Go out and look at the
night sky and consider how little of the total area is covered by
stars. The odds of a stray missile even passing within the heliopause
of another star are absolutely miniscule but are still enormous
compared to the odds of it actually hitting anything of significance.

[deowll]

Post by Grashtel

Post by deowll
Absolutely but time is long and these things aren't going to slow down
until after they hit sometime.

Time is long but space is really, REALLY big. Go out and look at the
night sky and consider how little of the total area is covered by
stars. The odds of a stray missile even passing within the heliopause
of another star are absolutely miniscule but are still enormous
compared to the odds of it actually hitting anything of significance.

The odds of a hunk of space junk taking out a bunch of humans is now small
but if you run the odds including some of the more catastrophic cases the
risk is actually not all that trivial.

The more people in the HH universe that agree with you the more likely
somebody is to luck out.

[Don Sample]

Post by deowll

Post by Don Sample

Post by deowll

Post by Loren Pechtel

Post by deowll
Fair enough if you are a major player. A lot of the missiles in use
by
the
minor navies, pirates, and armed merchant men shouldn't be cutting
edge.
In
fact if you are selling on the open market they should be rather generic
with no secrets which seems to be the legal norm in the SLN. That
being
the
case the buyer at any rate is going to have little to no motivation to see
to it a self destruct is in working order and the maker isn't going to have
much motive to put one in or worry about quality control if they do.
The remaining reason for a self destruct is if you seen your missile
heading for something you don't want to hit. That however is almost
certainly going to require an outside signal to trigger it and if no such
signal is given the missile would continue on its course.

The destruct can be in the control program of the warhead, no separate
destruct device is needed.
If the missile has gone too far to be useful you simply fire the
warhead without spinning up the gravity generators that focus it. The
missile is vaporized by the h-blast.

I agree that all you have to do is set the warhead off and it won't cost
much to have it set up this way. The question is will all users really care
enough about stray missiles to make sure the systems work or bother about
strays. The answer I came up with is not likely.

Of course none of those other users are firing their missiles off by the
thousands either. The odds of a missile hitting a planet are
infinitesimal. Space is very big, and planets are very small.

Absolutely but time is long and these things aren't going to slow down
until after they hit sometime.

You could fire a missile along the plane of the galactic disk, and it's
very unlikely that it will hit anything bigger than a grain of sand
before it comes out the other side a hundred thousand years later. Of
course the various dust particles and grains of sand it does hit will
erode it down to nothing before that happens. If it does make it
through the this galaxy intact, it's probably not going to hit another
one before the heat death of the universe.

[deowll]

Post by Don Sample

Post by deowll

Post by Don Sample

Post by deowll

Post by Loren Pechtel

Post by deowll
Fair enough if you are a major player. A lot of the missiles in use
by
the
minor navies, pirates, and armed merchant men shouldn't be cutting
edge.
In
fact if you are selling on the open market they should be rather generic
with no secrets which seems to be the legal norm in the SLN. That
being
the
case the buyer at any rate is going to have little to no motivation
to
see
to it a self destruct is in working order and the maker isn't going
to
have
much motive to put one in or worry about quality control if they do.
The remaining reason for a self destruct is if you seen your missile
heading for something you don't want to hit. That however is almost
certainly going to require an outside signal to trigger it and if no such
signal is given the missile would continue on its course.

The destruct can be in the control program of the warhead, no separate
destruct device is needed.
If the missile has gone too far to be useful you simply fire the
warhead without spinning up the gravity generators that focus it.
The
missile is vaporized by the h-blast.

I agree that all you have to do is set the warhead off and it won't cost
much to have it set up this way. The question is will all users really care
enough about stray missiles to make sure the systems work or bother about
strays. The answer I came up with is not likely.

Of course none of those other users are firing their missiles off by the
thousands either. The odds of a missile hitting a planet are
infinitesimal. Space is very big, and planets are very small.

Absolutely but time is long and these things aren't going to slow down
until after they hit sometime.

You could fire a missile along the plane of the galactic disk, and it's
very unlikely that it will hit anything bigger than a grain of sand
before it comes out the other side a hundred thousand years later. Of
course the various dust particles and grains of sand it does hit will
erode it down to nothing before that happens. If it does make it
through the this galaxy intact, it's probably not going to hit another
one before the heat death of the universe.

Which is great the fewer missiles or other high speed objects are out there
and the more likely something is to slam something as the number of such
objects goes up and the more time passes.

Post by Don Sample
--
Quando omni flunkus moritati
Visit the Buffy Body Count at <http://homepage.mac.com/dsample/>

[pyotr filipivich]

Let the Record show that "deowll" <***@gmail.com> on or about Thu,
11 Mar 2010 02:44:36 -0600 did write/type or cause to appear in

Post by deowll

Post by Loren Pechtel

Post by deowll
Fair enough if you are a major player. A lot of the missiles in use by the
minor navies, pirates, and armed merchant men shouldn't be cutting edge. In
fact if you are selling on the open market they should be rather generic
with no secrets which seems to be the legal norm in the SLN. That being the
case the buyer at any rate is going to have little to no motivation to see
to it a self destruct is in working order and the maker isn't going to have
much motive to put one in or worry about quality control if they do.
The remaining reason for a self destruct is if you seen your missile
heading for something you don't want to hit. That however is almost
certainly going to require an outside signal to trigger it and if no such
signal is given the missile would continue on its course.

The destruct can be in the control program of the warhead, no separate
destruct device is needed.
If the missile has gone too far to be useful you simply fire the
warhead without spinning up the gravity generators that focus it. The
missile is vaporized by the h-blast.

I agree that all you have to do is set the warhead off and it won't cost
much to have it set up this way. The question is will all users really care
enough about stray missiles to make sure the systems work or bother about
strays. The answer I came up with is not likely.

It could be a hard wired "detonate on failure" - or just as likely
"slag on failure".

OT3H - a warhead headed out of system at .75 C is still going to
require a long time to arrive anywhere. What worries me are the bits
and pieces which don't get up to system escape velocity, and wind up
in a long looping orbit. Three, five, 200 years after the battle, in
comes a warhead / hatch cover / forward radar dome / "scrap" chunk.
Space travel in the year 4000 Gregorian is going to be "interesting".
-
pyotr filipivich.
Just about the time you finally see light at the end of the tunnel,
you find out it's a Government Project to build more tunnel.

[Don Sample]

Post by pyotr filipivich
11 Mar 2010 02:44:36 -0600 did write/type or cause to appear in

Post by deowll

Post by Loren Pechtel

Post by deowll
Fair enough if you are a major player. A lot of the missiles in use by the
minor navies, pirates, and armed merchant men shouldn't be cutting edge. In
fact if you are selling on the open market they should be rather generic
with no secrets which seems to be the legal norm in the SLN. That being the
case the buyer at any rate is going to have little to no motivation to see
to it a self destruct is in working order and the maker isn't going to have
much motive to put one in or worry about quality control if they do.
The remaining reason for a self destruct is if you seen your missile
heading for something you don't want to hit. That however is almost
certainly going to require an outside signal to trigger it and if no such
signal is given the missile would continue on its course.

The destruct can be in the control program of the warhead, no separate
destruct device is needed.
If the missile has gone too far to be useful you simply fire the
warhead without spinning up the gravity generators that focus it. The
missile is vaporized by the h-blast.

I agree that all you have to do is set the warhead off and it won't cost
much to have it set up this way. The question is will all users really care
enough about stray missiles to make sure the systems work or bother about
strays. The answer I came up with is not likely.

It could be a hard wired "detonate on failure" - or just as likely
"slag on failure".
OT3H - a warhead headed out of system at .75 C is still going to
require a long time to arrive anywhere. What worries me are the bits
and pieces which don't get up to system escape velocity, and wind up
in a long looping orbit. Three, five, 200 years after the battle, in
comes a warhead / hatch cover / forward radar dome / "scrap" chunk.
Space travel in the year 4000 Gregorian is going to be "interesting".

It's not going to be any worse than any of the countless other bits of
rock floating around the system. Even the slowest freighters in the
Honorverse achieve stellar escape velocity after about 10 to 20 seconds
under weigh. Parts falling off spaceships are almost always going to
have escape velocity, unless the part fell off while the spaceship was
"parked."

[pyotr filipivich]

Let the Record show that Don Sample <***@synapse.net> on or about
Thu, 11 Mar 2010 19:43:23 -0500 did write/type or cause to appear in

Post by Don Sample

Post by pyotr filipivich
11 Mar 2010 02:44:36 -0600 did write/type or cause to appear in

Post by deowll

Post by Loren Pechtel

Post by deowll
Fair enough if you are a major player. A lot of the missiles in use by the
minor navies, pirates, and armed merchant men shouldn't be cutting edge. In
fact if you are selling on the open market they should be rather generic
with no secrets which seems to be the legal norm in the SLN. That being the
case the buyer at any rate is going to have little to no motivation to see
to it a self destruct is in working order and the maker isn't going to have
much motive to put one in or worry about quality control if they do.
The remaining reason for a self destruct is if you seen your missile
heading for something you don't want to hit. That however is almost
certainly going to require an outside signal to trigger it and if no such
signal is given the missile would continue on its course.

The destruct can be in the control program of the warhead, no separate
destruct device is needed.
If the missile has gone too far to be useful you simply fire the
warhead without spinning up the gravity generators that focus it. The
missile is vaporized by the h-blast.

I agree that all you have to do is set the warhead off and it won't cost
much to have it set up this way. The question is will all users really care
enough about stray missiles to make sure the systems work or bother about
strays. The answer I came up with is not likely.

It could be a hard wired "detonate on failure" - or just as likely
"slag on failure".
OT3H - a warhead headed out of system at .75 C is still going to
require a long time to arrive anywhere. What worries me are the bits
and pieces which don't get up to system escape velocity, and wind up
in a long looping orbit. Three, five, 200 years after the battle, in
comes a warhead / hatch cover / forward radar dome / "scrap" chunk.
Space travel in the year 4000 Gregorian is going to be "interesting".

It's not going to be any worse than any of the countless other bits of
rock floating around the system. Even the slowest freighters in the
Honorverse achieve stellar escape velocity after about 10 to 20 seconds
under weigh. Parts falling off spaceships are almost always going to
have escape velocity, unless the part fell off while the spaceship was
"parked."

Not just the stuff falling off the ships, but the chunks blown off
during combat. I recall a story in a different universe, where one
of the characters wakes up after the victory party in a "small boat"
/pod. Quickly has to start dodging "spent" missiles and new space
junk.

-
pyotr filipivich.
Just about the time you finally see light at the end of the tunnel,
you find out it's a Government Project to build more tunnel.

[Don Sample]

Post by pyotr filipivich
Thu, 11 Mar 2010 19:43:23 -0500 did write/type or cause to appear in

Post by Don Sample

Post by pyotr filipivich
11 Mar 2010 02:44:36 -0600 did write/type or cause to appear in

Post by deowll

Post by Loren Pechtel

Post by deowll
Fair enough if you are a major player. A lot of the missiles in use
by
the
minor navies, pirates, and armed merchant men shouldn't be cutting
edge.
In
fact if you are selling on the open market they should be rather generic
with no secrets which seems to be the legal norm in the SLN. That
being
the
case the buyer at any rate is going to have little to no motivation to see
to it a self destruct is in working order and the maker isn't going to have
much motive to put one in or worry about quality control if they do.
The remaining reason for a self destruct is if you seen your missile
heading for something you don't want to hit. That however is almost
certainly going to require an outside signal to trigger it and if no such
signal is given the missile would continue on its course.

The destruct can be in the control program of the warhead, no separate
destruct device is needed.
If the missile has gone too far to be useful you simply fire the
warhead without spinning up the gravity generators that focus it. The
missile is vaporized by the h-blast.

I agree that all you have to do is set the warhead off and it won't cost
much to have it set up this way. The question is will all users really care
enough about stray missiles to make sure the systems work or bother about
strays. The answer I came up with is not likely.

It could be a hard wired "detonate on failure" - or just as likely
"slag on failure".
OT3H - a warhead headed out of system at .75 C is still going to
require a long time to arrive anywhere. What worries me are the bits
and pieces which don't get up to system escape velocity, and wind up
in a long looping orbit. Three, five, 200 years after the battle, in
comes a warhead / hatch cover / forward radar dome / "scrap" chunk.
Space travel in the year 4000 Gregorian is going to be "interesting".

It's not going to be any worse than any of the countless other bits of
rock floating around the system. Even the slowest freighters in the
Honorverse achieve stellar escape velocity after about 10 to 20 seconds
under weigh. Parts falling off spaceships are almost always going to
have escape velocity, unless the part fell off while the spaceship was
"parked."

Not just the stuff falling off the ships, but the chunks blown off
during combat. I recall a story in a different universe, where one
of the characters wakes up after the victory party in a "small boat"
/pod. Quickly has to start dodging "spent" missiles and new space
junk.

Still doesn't work in the real world (or in places like the Honorverse
where the author has some appreciation for just how big space is.)

Even if all the bits of scrap created by something like the Battle of
Manticore somehow managed to stay in the Manticore system, they'd be a
tiny drop in the bucket compared to all the natural junk floating around
in the system. In "reality," almost none of the junk from the BoM would
have stayed in the system, and any of it that did would have been in the
form of gas, since the energy needed to give that much delta-v to a bit
flotsam would have vapourized it.

[deowll]

Post by pyotr filipivich
11 Mar 2010 02:44:36 -0600 did write/type or cause to appear in

Post by deowll

Post by Loren Pechtel

Post by deowll
Fair enough if you are a major player. A lot of the missiles in use by the
minor navies, pirates, and armed merchant men shouldn't be cutting edge. In
fact if you are selling on the open market they should be rather generic
with no secrets which seems to be the legal norm in the SLN. That being the
case the buyer at any rate is going to have little to no motivation to see
to it a self destruct is in working order and the maker isn't going to have
much motive to put one in or worry about quality control if they do.
The remaining reason for a self destruct is if you seen your missile
heading for something you don't want to hit. That however is almost
certainly going to require an outside signal to trigger it and if no such
signal is given the missile would continue on its course.

The destruct can be in the control program of the warhead, no separate
destruct device is needed.
If the missile has gone too far to be useful you simply fire the
warhead without spinning up the gravity generators that focus it. The
missile is vaporized by the h-blast.

I agree that all you have to do is set the warhead off and it won't cost
much to have it set up this way. The question is will all users really care
enough about stray missiles to make sure the systems work or bother about
strays. The answer I came up with is not likely.

It could be a hard wired "detonate on failure" - or just as likely
"slag on failure".
OT3H - a warhead headed out of system at .75 C is still going to
require a long time to arrive anywhere. What worries me are the bits
and pieces which don't get up to system escape velocity, and wind up
in a long looping orbit. Three, five, 200 years after the battle, in
comes a warhead / hatch cover / forward radar dome / "scrap" chunk.
Space travel in the year 4000 Gregorian is going to be "interesting".

You seriously need wedges, side walls, and particle shielding.

Post by pyotr filipivich
-
pyotr filipivich.
Just about the time you finally see light at the end of the tunnel,
you find out it's a Government Project to build more tunnel.